Questions

[Jung]

Hi all~
Would you please help me some grammar questions?

Here is the confused sentence:

If the sediments laid down several million years ago form a rock layer that is of uniform composition, that rock is named for both the sediments that formed it and the location where it was discovered.

Q1(first red block): Should I put a "TO" before "form"
Q2(second red block): what is "OF" meaning here? Can I wipe it out?

Thanks for your help!

[Luis Ko]

i Guess..

1. form is the main verb of the subject "the sediments laid down several million years ago", so that you can't put "to" before it.
2. you can't neither. it describes the rock layer is a layer of uniform composition.

it may not be correct. if it's not, sorry for my audacious answer.^++++^

[euphorian]

If a fluent and grammatically correct sentence doesn't sound natural to you, it may be too time consuming to memorize all the rules. Most native speakers probably can't tell you why a word is redundant or missing here and there, but they sure will notice right away. Don't get too caught up with low level syntax errors. Being a grammar expert shouldn't be everybody's ultimate learning goal. Train your ears to get used to what grammatically correct English sounds like is perhaps the best way.

[Jung]

If a fluent and grammatically correct sentence doesn't sound natural to you, it may be too time consuming to memorize all the rules. Most native speakers probably can't tell you why a word is redundant or missing here and there, but they sure will notice right away. Don't get too caught up with low level syntax errors. Being a grammar expert shouldn't be everybody's ultimate learning goal. Train your ears to get used to what grammatically correct English sounds like is perhaps the best way.

Yes, I agree your point. On one hand, however, students in Taiwan always have to face a lot of exams. For instance, from the daily exams in elementary school to the TOEFL, GRE, AT in the higher education. On the other hand, the english training in Taiwan has focused on reading skill, thus they have to understand the grammar. I think that's why students have so many grammatical questions.

p.s. I'll keep training my ear,tks

[euphorian]

The new TOEFL iBT and GRE do reflect on one's English ability in a practical manner. Grammar is something you put in the back of your head, and it is there when you needed. If you need to constantly micro-manage a sentence with all the grammatical rules, perhaps that is a bit over-reaching.
There is something not right about Taiwan's English educational industry, formal or recreational. For one thing, let's not be too dazzled with the showiness of a fluent native English speaker. Beginners and intermediate learners are too contented with low-hanging-fruit. Grammar can be consider as low-hang-fruit. The appearance of fluency is another example. Fundamentally, one's thirst for knowledge determines one's achievement in language level, not the willingness to take all those exams.

[Darren]

Hi all~
Would you please help me some grammar questions?

Here is the confused sentence:

If the sediments laid down several million years ago form a rock layer that is of uniform composition, that rock is named for both the sediments that formed it and the location where it was discovered.

Q1(first red block): Should I put a "TO" before "form"
Q2(second red block): what is "OF" meaning here? Can I wipe it out?

Thanks for your help!

I think the first red block is a grammatical error. The second block "that is" are extra words.
If the sediments laid down several million years ago formed a rock layer of uniform composition, that layer is named after both the sediments that formed it and the location of where it was discovered.

[Jung]

Thanks for your opinions, Darren. But why? Any problems with "to form"?

====================================
To euphorian:
Actually, I don't like to micro-manage all the sentences either. In fact, I'm going to take an iBT test recently, that forced me to concern with many questions. Maybe Taiwan students care about the grammar only when they have to confront the exams, ha, what a pity. Nevertheless, just like you say that the grammar is our back, and base. So, partly but not completely, I think it has importance to me--otherwise my iBT score may below than 30...

BTW, take it easy, I'm not that kind of person who contented with low-hanging-fruit. I just wanna get a desirable outcome of my test (You may ask why so many people learned English only for the SCORE. I can tell you that is because Information Asymmetric). Moreover, as an old say goes, If you couldn't walk (grab the low-handing-fruit), how can you fly (reach the high-hanging-fruit). Right?

Finally, thanks for your suggestion about knowledge acquisition. I deeply appreciate it.

[Darren]

Thanks for your opinions, Darren. But why? Any problems with "to form"?

If you use "to form" it would definately be grammatically incorrect.
The present tense "form" (the original tense used) sounds weird because the rock layer is formed in the past and took a few million years. So, personally I would use "formed".
By the way, I added a "of" near the end of the sentence and also changed "rock" into "layer" in my previous reply.


This is off the topic:
to make the sentence less confusing try turning:

Original:
If the sediments laid down several million years ago formed a rock layer of uniform composition, that layer is named for both the sediments that formed it and the location where it was discovered.

into:
If the sediments laid down several million years ago formed a rock layer of uniform composition, that rock (optional "rock") layer is named after its composition and also its discovered location.


P.S. when describing about naming. Australians often use "after". For example: The aircraft carrier, Abraham Lincoln, is named after the famous U.S. president who was assasinated.

[euphorian]

There is a window of opportunity to learn another language without too much emphasis on grammar. If you miss that crucial period, you may just have to learn all the rules like they are written in stone. They do teach grammar in high school English class (USA), just for a few days. The kind of grammatical mistakes made by native speakers are easily detected by ESL student. I am not here to dismiss grammar entirely. Because grammar seems to be the only way to explain how a sentence should be constructed. It is no good to tell an ESL student, "that is just the way it is."

[Jung]

If you use "to form" it would definately be grammatically incorrect.
The present tense "form" (the original tense used) sounds weird because the rock layer is formed in the past and took a few million years. So, personally I would use "formed".

Thanks Darren, I got it~
I hate grammar...