How do we say "店店吃三碗公"

[jerry2508]

Haha, you're tricked into the thread!

Some Chinese terms are just...VERY CHINESE. Do we have to translate all these "VERY CHINESE TERMS" into English for English conversation? Doubt it.
Here are tons of them, "店店吃三碗公" "你皮在癢" "挫勒等" "金小掰" "要挫起來" "衝三小?" "去蘇州賣鴨蛋" "眉角" "拉滴賽" "ㄘ牙裂嘴" "嘴臉" "頭好壯壯" "菊花台" "不遠千里" "聲東擊西" "一洩千里"..... endless and countless. Help me out, if you're really really interested.

"Mother tongue interfereence" is a frequent mention by linguists. Language leaners often times cannot but try to do instant conversions from their mother tongues to a new language. We feel totally uncomfortable, out of water, uneasy not to do so.^^

While some community members try to give smart translations of「博感情」「犯賤」「抓猴」..., Jerry is thinking about something else, although I can't provide a proper equivalent to each Chinese term asked.

Why don't we look at these Chinese terms in everyday contexts or in sentences before we provide English equivalents??

Ironically, we almost always try to learn, or encourage others to learn how to use an English word/phrase in example sentences. That's where good dictionaries with lots of example sentences come in. nevertheless we don't even think of doing that for Chinese words/phrases. Bummer!!

Memorizing a certain word/phrase alone could wind up not knowing how to use it, or lost in what you're talking about.
According to all those great messages posted, some of them are believed to be English teachers, English elites...to write something like that, but none of them follow the language ABC--looking at a word/phrase in a context, even though it's Chinese. Just because it's Chinese doesn't mean we don't have to look at a term in a context/sentence.
English elites give out translations lacking in language ABC, what about followers?

Even if learners got smart translations, can they use them in a context next time when they need to?
Even if it's shuffled in a sentence, can native speakers have a clue??
What if they don't? Aren't we gonna talk a blue streak explaining what we were trying to say???

Take my word for it,
"Those who are familiar with their own native language have blind spots, let alone non-native speakers."
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初級程度者 可點中文翻譯>
http://blog.xuite.net/jerry25084266/playground/10144912

[Darren]

That's a good point, Jerry.

These "Chinese Terms" are classified as "Native Expressions"

Native Expressions are words or phrases that come from any individual language which cannot be directly translated into any language. These expressions are generally derived from the distinct cultures that made up these languages. And often, even with the same language, the expressions can be quite different due to the local cultural diffrences. For example: Taiwanese Mandarin expressions VS Chinese Mandarin expressions; American English (you down with us man; wassup) VS British English VS Australian English (bugger me, crickey).


Agreeing with Jerry here: It is more justifiable to translate the meaning of a sentence in context rather than interpreting a single phrase expression.


The main problem with language learners, in this case: English, is the sequence (method) they use in order to produce the English language. Most English learners will first think of a sentence or expression in their own language, and then translate the language word by word. Thus, the problems of direct translation will occur. This results in a misuse of proper language (L2 English). There's nothing grammatically wrong with the translated sentence. However, expression wise, is regarded as strange or incomprehensible to native English speakers.



As Jerry said before, some expressions are easy to interpret. For example: 有其父必有其子 = a chip off the old block / like father, like son.
However, some expressions, like the examples Jerry stated above (and from Happy & everyone in this forum), can only be translated by context (sometimes even 2 or 3 sentences).


It was stated by one linguist: To successfully cross-interpret two languages requires the interpreter to become accustomed to both cultures. It is then that the interpreter can express the translation as naturally as the languages intend. So, in my opinion, learning a culture is an vital part of learning the target language. Without it, it's pretty hard to speak English as the Americans/British/whatever do.



hmmmm, I think my reply to this thread is out of context to what Jerry is saying. But I'm to lazy to delete this, Sorry.

[Glotynn]

Many American idioms and slang expressions have their own meanings only known to Americans, and need to be translated even for the native speakers of other English speaking countries. Therefore, you don't need to translate those Chinese/Taiwanese idiomatic phrases by their literal wordings, but instead you simply do it by their precise meanings. For example,
吃醋: be jealous (and not "eat vinegar")
打翻醋罈子了: be extremely jealous (and not "overturn a vinegar jar")

Let's give it a try for the native phrases Jerry provided:
"店店吃三碗公"
taking advantage of sth. silently

"你皮在癢"
You are asking for punishment.

"挫勒等"
to wait in fear

"金小掰" (真搖擺)
act arrogantly

"要挫起來"
be serious up

"衝三小?"
What the hell are you doing?


"去蘇州賣鴨蛋"
die; pass away; kick the bucket

"眉角"
pros and cons

"拉滴賽"
????

"叱牙裂嘴"
twist one's own face

"嘴臉"
countenance; outlooks

"頭好壯壯"
intelligent and healthy

"菊花台"
<a song's title>

"不遠千里"
without minding the long distance

"聲東擊西"
make a diverted attack

"一洩千里"
slide down sharply

[jerry2508]

Thank Darren for your backup.
Thank Glotyn for your great interest and effort.

We know there are some malicious "pharming sites", while this is a "fishing post head", hahaha....

My intention of giving more "very Chinese terms" was to solicit (allure) more GOOD EXAMPLES of careless, dangeous, misleading translations from Chinese into English.

Most of the translations listed in the previous message are agreed upon, but some of them just reinforce what I been worried about--out of conext, out of sense. if I give some contexts for these Chinese terms, the English equivalents Glotynn gave would not make much sense.

(1)弟：「哥 、哥、哥、哥~~~~~~叫你有沒聽到啊?!」 哥：「衝三小!!」(衝三小in the context would simply mean, "What?" "What do you want??", NOT "What the hell are you doing?" If you say: 「你到底在衝三小?」it means, "What the hell are you doing?" )

(2)你餵生病的老太太吃那麼多， 萬一她挫起來怎麼辦? ( "What if she deteriorates/gets worse and dies?"; According to GOOGLE, I wonder if "be serious up" is a common phrase and how it fits in the context.)

(3)「教你早一點準備不聽， 你看~現在要挫起來了喔!」 (See, you're getting worried and nervous now." "Now you are feeling the pinch, uh!?")


(4)「你要做這行， 你就該學習這行業的眉眉角角」(" You got to learn the tricks of the trade/rule of thumb/methods/way of doing it...", DEFINITELY NOT " You got to learn the pros and cons."

(5)....

(6)...

The English tanslations I did may not be the first choices, and I am not here to criticize anything , or pick on anybody, but I just want to call for the significane of looking at a Chinese term in a Chinese everyday context first, before providing viewers with its English equivalent, if anyone ever brings up any translation questions like this. :
.

Is the point I'm making convincing enough?

[Jenniferlin]

Thanks for telling us that we might not try to just translate the words but have to look up the context in case of making any misunderstanding to native speakers.

I do believe that it's not easy for us to do it not only because we are the language learners but also due to the culture background.

Sometimes I'm wondering that should I try to memorize more phrases or idioms to express myself cuz' that sounds more like a native speaker.

But it's difficult for old people to pick up the language quickly so I always give it up whenever I make up my mind to learn them.

Yes, of course, if we know more and we can speak more naturally but we aren't native speakers actually.

Personally, I do think that if we don't know lot's of vocabulary, we can still try to use simple words to express ourselves well as long as we speak it out.

That's what I thought after asking friends and checking the dictionary how to say or translate these Chinese trems here.

[euphorian]

Idiomatic expressions are fun to learn. Many English learners are often too happy to learn them, despite the fact that they may not encounter them in the field on a daily baisis. So, how important are these idioms? Well...important enough to distract us from other more important aspects of our miserable English-learning life that we have choose to get ourselves into. That is all I have to say.